
Traveller-digest    Wednesday, October 27 1999    Volume 1999 : Number 1263



(R)1996. Traveller is a registered trademark of FarFuture Enterprises.
All rights reserved.

The following topics are covered in this digest:

RE: I-WAR (independence war): Traveller??
RE: My 3D work
3D starbases
Re: 3D starbases
Re: Oh no... an Imperial Warrant!
Re: Freezing in the Aleutians
Re: Freezing in the Aleutians (was Re: ) 
RE: I-WAR (independence war): Traveller??
RE: 3D starbases
Re: 3D starbases
Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
RE: 3D starbases
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Oh no... an Imperial Warrant!
Re: Another game company bites the dust
Re: Fellow Traveller

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 15:36:37 +1300
From: "Rupert Boleyn" <rboleyn@paradise.net.nz>
Subject: RE: I-WAR (independence war): Traveller??

On 25 Oct 99, at 20:18, Jesse DeGraff wrote:

> [Ears seriously perking at the Lightwave modelling reference, let alone
> I-War, which is COOL!]
> 
> I had /some/ play time into the game, about mission 8 or so, back when the
> game came out.  GREAT game, story, graphics, etc.  Best space one yet. 
> And I was just reading TODAY (talk about coincidence, eh?) about the
> deluxe version of the game releasing here in the states (you can play and
> Indie for 18 missions).

Yep - talk about coincidence. I just bought the game today, and the 
first thing I saw when I downloaded my mail was a message titled "I-
WAR".



- --
Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
Wellington, New Zealand

A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 19:42:45 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: My 3D work

[blushing seriously]  :)
Great work Andy!!

Jesse



> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Andrew Akins
> Sent: Monday, October 25, 1999 11:49 PM
> To: TML
> Subject: My 3D work
>
>
> Well, I'll jump into the fray...
>
> Go to my website (http://www.truserve.com/~igor/traveller/) and enter the
> Ship Gallery - you can see two pictures that I've done. The deckplans for
> the LF-78 are being redone, and the stats for both are being typed up
> (although the L-2 stats won't be available till after the THUDDD entry
> period).
>
> I think I'm doing decent on modeling and texturing, but my composition
> leaves a bit to be desired. I gotta work on starfields, nebulas, stars and
> planets...
>
> Many thanks to Lord DeGraff, Archduke of Traveller 3D Graphics,
> for his help
> and support in teaching me this stuff...
>
> Hopefully more to come soon (in the pipe: Atlantis class Gunboat
> and Silent
> Thunder class Frigate), but I'm also redoing the whole website
> now that I've
> got Dreamweaver, Fireworks, and Flash...
>
> Comments are welcome...heck, even encouraged...
>
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | Andrew Akins                                                       |
> | Home: igor@truserve.com - http://www.truserve.com/~igor/           |
> | Work: andya@cms-gt.com - http://www.cms-gt.com/                    |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
> | IMTU: tg++(**) tc+ ru+ ge 3i+ jt- st au ls+ kk++ hi+ as+ va+ dr++  |
> |       so+ zh+ vi+ da+                                              |
> | Geek: GCS d- s+:+ a- C++ W++ w+++(-)$ PS+ PE t- 5++ X+ R+++ tv+    |
> |       b+++ DI+ D-- G e++ h---- r+++ y++++                          |
> +--------------------------------------------------------------------+
>
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:44:52 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: 3D starbases

With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not seen any bases or
space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was wondering if there
are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 21:57:51 -0500
From: "Thomas Vickers" <redroach@flex.net>
Subject: Re: 3D starbases

nothing in 3d !!!!That I know of.
Now some of us have been trying to get  a  project underway and it is slowly
coming together. I will once again use the obvious T:2300 hook :)
http://members.tripod.com/AD2300II/Main.htm

And yes, its a shameless plug for one of my websights and projects

TV
- ----------------------------------------------------------------------------
- ------------
"The dumber you seem to be, the more surprised they'll be when you kill
them."
- -----Original Message-----
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:43 PM
Subject: 3D starbases


>With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not seen any bases
or
>space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was wondering if
there
>are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
>----------------------------------------------
>he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
>      Shimmer
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:15:58 -0400
From: worj <worj@home.com>
Subject: Re: Oh no... an Imperial Warrant!

At 01:24 PM 10/26/1999 +0000, you wrote:
>At 11:53 AM 10/26/1999 -0500, Doug wrote:
>
> >Dramatis Personae
> >
> >PC 1: "Mr. Nervous"
> >PC 2: "Mr. Gung-Ho"
>
>Or just substitute the cast from "Knights of the Dinner Table"
>
>Kirsten and I kept expecting PC 2 to shout "I waste him with my crossbow!!"
>
>Hoody Hoo!

Which is to say, SOMEbody (involved with this thread) ought to send 
KenzerCo@aol.com (aka, The Knights of the Dinner Table folks) this script - 
it'll make it into an upcoming KODT for sure!



Bill Rutherford

Please note that my NEW email address is:
worj@home.com

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:24:32 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians

On Mon, 25 Oct 1999 09:49:38 -0700 (PDT), Anthony Jackson
<ajackson@molly.iii.com> wrote:

>Craig Berry writes:
>> > note to self: Figure crush depth for GF BD designs...
>> 
>> I'd suggest a safe sustained operating limit of 10 atm, with certain-death
>> sustained load around 15 atm and a peak transient load (e.g., from
>> explosive overpressure waves) of perhaps 20 atm.  You can leave off the
>> latter two in the interests of simplicity; the peak-transient can actually
>> be considered as factored into the suit's defensive value within the
>> combat system.
>
>Well, if you just use the Vehicles computation for crush depth, there won't
> be much trouble exceeding those figures.  Crush depth in Vehicles is a 
>multiple of DR, which is why the Intrepit has a crush depth of 140 miles....

The scout expedition dress on page 32 of "First In" has a crush depth
of 250 yards listed.

================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net

"Every citizen [should] be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and  the
 Romans, and must be that of every free state."   -Thomas Jefferson

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 03:28:08 GMT
From: j_pete@bellsouth.net (Pete)
Subject: Re: Freezing in the Aleutians (was Re: ) 

On Sun, 24 Oct 1999 18:15:31 -0400, "Keven R. Pittsinger"
<jamstar@accesstoledo.com> wrote:

>> At 04:37 PM 10/23/99 -0500, you wrote:
>> >The navy folks here in Pcola don't say bad things about Adak, but
>> >the AF folks down the road at Eglin do.  They speak even more
>> >unkindly of someplace called Minot.  <sp>
>> 
>> 	Why not Minot?
>> 	Freezin's the reason!
>> 
>> Minot, North Dakota ... one of the northern tier ICBM sites, already
>> a job that just sucks.
>
>My borderline loonytoons ex-Air Farce spook roomie claims that Minot's 
>*proper* pronunciation is 'Mindrot'.

Well... have you ever drank a slurpee too fast through a straw? That's
what breathing Minot air is like. ;-) Imagine, some people ENJOY
living there!



================================================================================
- - Jeff Peterson                                             j_pete@bellsouth.net

"Every citizen [should] be a soldier. This was the case with the Greeks and  the
 Romans, and must be that of every free state."   -Thomas Jefferson

Pete 0609 D258A85-3 S kk- hi++ as+ va++ dr++ so zh- vi+ da++ A833
GCS V 3.12 d- s:+: a- C+++ UH++$ P-- L+ E-- W++ N++ o-- K- w++++(---)$ !O M-- V-
PS-- PE++ Y+ PGP t+ 5++ X+ R+ tv+ b+++ DI++ D++ G e+ h--- r+++ y+++
NOG #74  AirStar Nova 700

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:34:18 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: I-WAR (independence war): Traveller??

Whoa.  Spooky ;)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Rupert
> Boleyn
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:37 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: RE: I-WAR (independence war): Traveller??
> 
> 
> On 25 Oct 99, at 20:18, Jesse DeGraff wrote:
> 
> > [Ears seriously perking at the Lightwave modelling reference, let alone
> > I-War, which is COOL!]
> > 
> > I had /some/ play time into the game, about mission 8 or so, 
> back when the
> > game came out.  GREAT game, story, graphics, etc.  Best space one yet. 
> > And I was just reading TODAY (talk about coincidence, eh?) about the
> > deluxe version of the game releasing here in the states (you 
> can play and
> > Indie for 18 missions).
> 
> Yep - talk about coincidence. I just bought the game today, and the 
> first thing I saw when I downloaded my mail was a message titled "I-
> WAR".
> 
> 
> 
> --
> Rupert Boleyn <paradise.net.nz>
> Wellington, New Zealand
> 
> A pessimist is an optimist with a sense of history.
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:35:49 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: 3D starbases

Not yet ;)  Both Andy Akins and I are working on highports for the
"Starports" book.  Stay tuned!  After the deadline is past, I'll post some
web only pics of some of the 'ports.

Jesse






> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Shimmergloom
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:45 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: 3D starbases
>
>
> With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not seen
> any bases or
> space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was
> wondering if there
> are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
> ----------------------------------------------
> he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
>       Shimmer
>
>
>

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:40:57 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: 3D starbases

far out.  Thanks


Jesse DeGraff wrote:

> Not yet ;)  Both Andy Akins and I are working on highports for the
> "Starports" book.  Stay tuned!  After the deadline is past, I'll post some
> web only pics of some of the 'ports.
>
> Jesse
>
> > -----Original Message-----
> > From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Shimmergloom
> > Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:45 PM
> > To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> > Subject: 3D starbases
> >
> >
> > With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not seen
> > any bases or
> > space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was
> > wondering if there
> > are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > he he he he he he he he he he he he
> >
> >       Shimmer
> >
> >
> >

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:42:07 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Another game company bites the dust

Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.  What the
heck is going on here?

- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:53:10 -0500
From: Black ICE <wombat@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Shimmergloom wrote:
> 
> Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.  What the
> heck is going on here?
> 
Do you have any details?  I just checked the _Pyramid_ site (one of the
best sources for game industry news), and didn't see anything about
White Wolf.

They did, however, have a very nice tribute to J. Andrew Keith (dated 26
Oct 99), with a pretty complete list of his published Traveller
material, and a tribute by Loren....


- -- 
AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
"Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:53:47 -0400
From: "Tim Reynolds" <tim@premier.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Shimmer questions


> Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.
What the
> heck is going on here?
>
> ----------------------------------------------
> he he he he he he he he he he he he
>
>       Shimmer
>
I think its a further sign that the industry has matured enough that
mainstream buyers are willing to buy.  At the sametime we may also be seeing
adult gammers being put in decision makeing places.

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 22:59:59 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

Their website has been up and down all day.  but the webmaster posted this:

WHITE WOLF HAS BEEN SOLD!
       I (Webmaster Chris) have just been informed that White Wolf has been sold.
After an oddly short meeting today, I was informed that I should prepare to redirect our
website to the new owners website tomorrow. At this time it is unclear whether they will
continue to produce White Wolf products. As far
as I have been told, they are an Internet-Only company.  They are some sort of marketing
firm that is
looking to tap the free-thought ideals" of White Wolf's audience or some such. I'm glad
that I could at
least have an opportunity to break the news to you, I'm sure press releases will follow
tomorrow. I will still be here for a few more days working to redirect all of our IP
adresses and domains to them. Tomorrow I will be forwarding this site to their new
homepage.  They assure me that all of our info will remain online and available for now.

So long and thanks for all the fish!
Chris McDonough

Black ICE wrote:

> Shimmergloom wrote:
> >
> > Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.  What the
> > heck is going on here?
> >
> Do you have any details?  I just checked the _Pyramid_ site (one of the
> best sources for game industry news), and didn't see anything about
> White Wolf.
>
> They did, however, have a very nice tribute to J. Andrew Keith (dated 26
> Oct 99), with a pretty complete list of his published Traveller
> material, and a tribute by Loren....
>
> --
> AuricTech Shipyards Journeyman Gearhead
> "Gold-Plated [tm] solutions for copper-plated problems!" (r)
> http://www.geocities.com/Area51/Shadowlands/9776

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:58:47 -0700
From: "Jesse DeGraff" <fenris@slip.net>
Subject: RE: 3D starbases

Hmmmm.......I recognize that furniture ;)

Jesse




> -----Original Message-----
> From: owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> [mailto:owner-traveller@lists.imagiconline.com]On Behalf Of Thomas
> Vickers
> Sent: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 7:58 PM
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com
> Subject: Re: 3D starbases
> 
> 
> nothing in 3d !!!!That I know of.
> Now some of us have been trying to get  a  project underway and 
> it is slowly
> coming together. I will once again use the obvious T:2300 hook :)
> http://members.tripod.com/AD2300II/Main.htm
> 
> And yes, its a shameless plug for one of my websights and projects
> 
> TV
> ------------------------------------------------------------------
> ----------
> ------------
> "The dumber you seem to be, the more surprised they'll be when you kill
> them."
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
> To: traveller@lists.imagiconline.com <traveller@lists.imagiconline.com>
> Date: Tuesday, October 26, 1999 9:43 PM
> Subject: 3D starbases
> 
> 
> >With all the talk of 3D modeling on here recently I have not 
> seen any bases
> or
> >space stations.  I am trying to create an image map and was wondering if
> there
> >are any pictures of space stations in 3D out there.
> >----------------------------------------------
> >he he he he he he he he he he he he
> >
> >      Shimmer
> >
> >
> >
> 
> 

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 23:00:52 -0500
From: Shimmergloom <shimmer@mhtc.net>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

I like that thought.  that would make this a good thing.

Tim Reynolds wrote:

> Shimmer questions
>
> > Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.
> What the
> > heck is going on here?
> >
> > ----------------------------------------------
> > he he he he he he he he he he he he
> >
> >       Shimmer
> >
> I think its a further sign that the industry has matured enough that
> mainstream buyers are willing to buy.  At the sametime we may also be seeing
> adult gammers being put in decision makeing places.

- --
- ----------------------------------------------
he he he he he he he he he he he he

      Shimmer

------------------------------

Date: Tue, 26 Oct 1999 20:59:40 -0700 (PDT)
From: "Zane H. Healy" <healyzh@aracnet.com>
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

> Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.  What the
> heck is going on here?

Hmmm, White Wolf sold to a marketing firm...  Yep, sounds like a perfect fit
to me (I'm serious).

			Zane

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:14:05 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Oh no... an Imperial Warrant!

In a message dated 10/27/99 3:17:05 AM !!!First Boot!!!, worj@home.com writes:

<< Which is to say, SOMEbody (involved with this thread) ought to send 
 KenzerCo@aol.com (aka, The Knights of the Dinner Table folks) this script - 
 it'll make it into an upcoming KODT for sure! >>

only if he (or people on his staff) are Traveller players, or at least know 
about the game, or they won't publish it....

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 00:17:30 EDT
From: Sethkimmel@aol.com
Subject: Re: Another game company bites the dust

In a message dated 10/27/99 3:40:43 AM !!!First Boot!!!, shimmer@mhtc.net 
writes:

<< Well, it seems that White wolf has been sold to some marketing firm now.  
What the
 heck is going on here? >>

the werewolf RPGers are no doubt howling mad... Seriously, why would a 
marketing company want it unless they want to milk it for CCG's?

------------------------------

Date: Wed, 27 Oct 1999 14:14:20 +1000
From: "Alan Bradley" <alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au>
Subject: Re: Fellow Traveller

> From: Craig Berry 
> > From: "Alan Bradley" 
> > > From: "Douglas E. Berry" 
> > > >Notice that "Socialism/Communism" Governments are not listed as
> > > >GovernmentTypes in the UWP? 
> > > 
> > > There are a couple of government types that would fill the
> > > Socialist/Communist role:
> > 
> > I think Doug is being a little PC here, in assuming that
> > Socialism/Communism equals Soviet/Chinese style Stalinism.  Remember,
> > in the TU, there's room for _everything_, somewhere.
> 
> Doug just did a quite credible job of mapping the existing government
> types onto socialist and communist *economies*.  That's the key insight,
> here; while there are obviously strong couplings between them, government
> and economy are separate, and there's no reason why one can't have (say)
> a communist democracy, or a socialist monarchy.

Yeah, that's right.  I didn't actually contradict anything Doug wrote.  I
did think that he held back from some of the options.

> > I've added some more to his list:
> > 
> > Gov't 0: No government.  Local communities and collectives run things. 
> > Might have happened if the Paris Commune had survived, and been joined
> > by other Communes.  (Commune is French for city, by the way.  Well,
> > more or less.)  
> 
> Trouble is that anarchy, or highly fractured government, is the least
> stable form of social organization.  Inevitably enclaves will fuse and
> grow, just to get economies of scale and in order to counter the guys
> across the river, who are also fusing and growing.

Well, Gov't 0 is in the books....

It could also be that the enclaves aren't actually in competition with each
other, and instead cooperate, or else have no real contact with each other.
Enclaves can also split, rather than fuse.

> > The other thing to consider is that by TL F, at least, labour
> > productivity is quite remarkable.  It might not make sense to produce
> > things in a capitalist manner at this point, and might make more sense
> > for stuff like basic food, housing and clothing to be distributed free.
> 
> This leads off into Banksian "hypercommunism," in which there's a massive
> superabundance of anything within reason, and in which people are also on
> the whole better socially adjusted to *be* reasonable.  There's a lovely
> minor subplot in one of his books in which a character gets utterly
> enraptured by the primitive notion of private property, and decides he
> wants to 'own' something.  The ship he's on obligingly fabricates a
> grapefruit-sized diamond and declares it to be his alone; he carries it
> around proudly for a few days before getting bored with it.  He starts
> carelessly leaving it lying around, several people trip over it or stub
> their toes on it, and finally (with the owner's consent) they eject the
> thing.

It's a good story.  Seth points out some of the problems with it.

In any case, I doubt we would go so far as this in Traveller games, if only
because it's hard to write decent stories set in Utopia.  But there is a
good thing about Utopia, and that is that you can only ever approach it,
and never get there.  If you are operating with finite resources, you will
always be subject to the limits of those resources, even if they are
massively greater than what we possess today.

This means that your utopian high tech world might have trouble supporting
its society.  It is also likely to mean that there will be other worlds
around who are less fortunate, and will be tempted to cut themselves in for
a piece of the action.  In short, Utopia might need to be armed, if it is
incapable of spreading its resources throughout the known universe...  It
just got less utopian, didn't it?

Then of course, what about the inward looking high tech, high pop worlds
that Cleon's forces encountered?  Some of these could have been doing quite
well for themselves, but would be forced to deal with a universe that
suddenly becomes less friendly, with pushy and powerful neighbours suddenly
insisting that they should open their "markets" to all this junk that will
throw the economic plan off target.  And what the hell is a "market"
anyway?

> From: Sethkimmel@aol.com (about the Banks story)
> I don't agree with this from a psychological point of view. I think
> people need a sense of ownership of some items. I also think this stems
> for personal space and privacy issues (which means it's variable
> depending on cultural norms). As an example, look at Israeli Kibbutz's or
> hunter-gatherer societies. MOST items are held in communal ownership, but
> certain items such as toiletries, clothing, and weapons (sometimes), are
> considered personal and thus "privately owned". I ask anyone on this list
> if they would be willing to share their LBB's....As a personal example,
> in my household the vast majority of items are considered communal, but
> my "stuff" (mostly my hobby items) are clearly "mine", and my wife's
> "stuff" is clearly hers. This doesn't mean we can't touch them, but you
> get the idea... I think even if I lived in a utopia where I could get
> anything I wanted at a whim, I would still have a need for my "space",
> especially if it involves something I CREATED myself...

Certainly true for Solomani Humans.  Certainly untrue for at least some
aliens.  True to varying degrees for most other species and cultures.  Of
course, in a whole bunch of jobs in our societies, people "create" a whole
lot of things that they do not retain ownership of, whether it's computer
software, cars, houses....  Of course, I understand that's not what you
mean.

"Personal" property is, as you note, not really the same thing as "private"
property.  Bill Gates' toothbrush is not the same as Microsoft.

Of course, in certain situations, this could be modified in the OTU.  For
example, a toothbrush that contained uninfected chips could well be
appropriated for use in a TNE setting.  The alternative is that the
hospital might not be able to repair the equipment necessary to save a
child's life....

Alan Bradley
alanb@elf.brisnet.org.au

------------------------------

End of Traveller-digest V1999 #1263
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A non-digest (direct mail) version of this list is also available; to
subscribe to that instead, replace all instances of "traveller-digest"
in the commands above with "traveller".

Multi-Player Games Network http://www.mpgn.com
